Wednesday, October 11, 2006

Quotes of the day: Shh! Don't tell the anti-immigration wackos that their fence idea totally sucks--unless the idea is to waste tax dollars

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"This is the feel-good approach to immigration control. The only pain is experienced by the migrants themselves. It doesn't hurt U.S. consumers; it doesn't hurt U.S. businesses. It only hurts taxpayers if they pay attention to spending on border enforcement."
--immigration expert Wayne Cornelius of the University of California at San Diego

"A few years ago, they installed cameras and said the cameras would solve things. Those cameras can pick up a tick on a cow's back. But when half the monitors are all busted like they are now, they don't work."
And how will illegal immigrants deal with the wall? "They will get ladders made out of mesquite and climb it."
--Maverick County (Texas) Sheriff Tomas S. Herrera

Both quoted in yesterday's Washington Post

Of course, even a minimal grasp of the actual issues involved in border control requires paying at least occasional visits to the real world, so don't expect to hear a syllable of sense anytime soon from Colorado Rep. Tom Tancredo (right) or his fellow anti-immigration wackos.

Fence Meets Wall of Skepticism
Critics Doubt a 700-Mile Barrier Would Stem Migrant Tide

By John Pomfret
Washington Post Staff Writer

CALEXICO, Calif.--Legislation passed by Congress mandating the fencing of 700 miles of the U.S. border with Mexico has sparked opposition from an array of land managers, businesspeople, law enforcement officials, environmentalists and U.S. Border Patrol agents as a one-size-fits-all policy response to the nettlesome task of securing the nation's borders.

Critics said the fence does not take into account the extraordinarily varied geography of the 2,000-mile-long border, which cuts through Mexican and U.S. cities separated by a sidewalk, vast scrubland and deserts, rivers, irrigation canals and miles of mountainous terrain. They also say it seems to ignore advances in border security that don't involve construction of a 15-foot-high double fence and to play down what are expected to be significant costs to maintain the new barrier.

And, they say, the estimated $2 billion price tag and the mandate that it be completed by 2008 overlook 10 years of legal and logistical difficulties the federal government has faced to finish a comparatively tiny fence of 14 miles dividing San Diego and Tijuana.

"This is the feel-good approach to immigration control," said Wayne Cornelius, an expert on immigration issues at the University of California at San Diego. "The only pain is experienced by the migrants themselves. It doesn't hurt U.S. consumers; it doesn't hurt U.S. businesses. It only hurts taxpayers if they pay attention to spending on border enforcement."

Congress has decreed that five sections of reinforced fencing--most probably a double fence with stadium lighting--will be built along a third of the border, in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. The biggest section is planned from east of Calexico stretching more than 300 miles to west of Douglas, Ariz.

There also are questions of whether the fence will be more of a symbol to be used in elections than a reality along the border. For one thing, shortly before Congress adjourned, the House and Senate gave the Bush administration leeway to distribute the money allocated for the fence to other projects, including roads, technology and other infrastructure items to support the Department of Homeland Security's preferred option of building a "virtual fence."

Currently, less than 100 miles of the border is fenced, primarily in populated areas. San Diego has become a symbol for the efficacy of fences, but a closer look at the experience of that seaside city also illustrates the potential pitfalls.

In the mid-1990s, the city was awash in illegal immigrants. Hundreds would gather by a soccer field near Otay Mesa, east of San Diego, and rush into the United States on what the Border Patrol termed "banzai runs." During those years, Border Patrol agents routinely apprehended 200,000 illegal entrants a year in the sector. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) got funding to build a fence and thousands more Border Patrol officers were dispatched to the area. The number of crossers plummeted.

But the fence, originally estimated at $14 million, incurred huge cost overruns and logistical and legal hurdles. It took $39 million to build the first nine miles, and the fence has yet to be finished. For a decade, litigation has delayed construction of 3.5 miles of the structure because environmental groups have opposed a federal plan to lop the tops off two mesas and pour 5.5 million cubic feet of dirt into a valley, called "Smuggler's Gulch," to flatten the terrain. Environmental groups lost the case when the Department of Homeland Security invoked a law exempting it from federal and state regulations in the interest of national security. DHS recently appropriated an additional $35 million to complete the fence--for a total of $74 million, or more than $5 million a mile.

The fence in San Diego forced illegal traffic into the deserts to the east, leading thousands of migrants to their death. In response, the Border Patrol shifted thousands of agents to Arizona to deal with the flow. But many of those agents came from the San Diego and El Centro sectors. So once again, the number of crossers in San Diego and El Centro is increasing even though the two sectors are the most heavily fenced in the nation.

"Tucson now has 2,600 agents. San Diego has lost 1,000 agents. Guess where the traffic is going? Back to San Diego." said T.J. Bonner, the president of the National Border Patrol Council, the main union for Border Patrol agents. "San Diego is the most heavily fortified border in the entire country, and yet it's not stopping people from coming across."

There are concerns along the border that the congressionally mandated fence could overshadow new, cheaper technologies that show some promise. For example, 30 miles of reinforced vehicle barriers, which cost on average $1 million a mile, have reduced by 95 percent road traffic from drug and migrant smugglers into the Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, where a park ranger was shot and killed by narcotics traffickers in 2002, said Kathy Billings, superintendent of the territory. "We used to have two to three high-speed chases a month," she said. "Now we have less than six a year."

But even the vehicle barriers, posts in the ground connected to each other by railroad ties, need year-round maintenance. The barriers at Organ Pipe have already been breached four times since they were completed this summer. A full-scale double fence in the Arizona desert, where summer rains cause flash floods that often rip up anything in their path, would be extremely costly to build, let alone maintain, Billings said.

The ecological effect of a fence would be significant, according to Roger Di Rosa, manager of the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge in Arizona, which runs along about 50 miles of the Mexican border. Efforts to protect pronghorn sheep and encourage the jaguar to return to the United States could be seriously affected, he said. "If it doesn't fly, it's not getting across," he said. "The law is pretty straightforward but the border is very unique."

Marine Corps officers in the region also have questioned the need for a fence. Using a combination of vehicle barriers and ground-based radar, they had blocked a significant portion of smuggling traffic through their land on the Yuma Proving Ground, which runs along 30 miles of the border, Di Rosa and others said. In recent months, however, the Pentagon for unknown reasons ordered the base to install a fence. Marine Corps officers at the facility did not return a call seeking comment.

Di Rosa and others cited other potential unintended consequences of fence-building. In some regions along the border, the nearest main road can be 80 miles away. So to build the barrier, roads must be created. That could end up facilitating movement into the United States rather than blocking it. Officials along the border challenged optimistic timelines that the wall could be built in two years, citing the high probability of lawsuits from environmental agencies and land owners.

In Texas, which is to get 200 miles of fencing, opposition to the plan has come from law enforcement and city governments. The City of El Paso has officially opposed the plan, as has the Texas Border Sheriff's Association.

Maverick County Sheriff Tomas S. Herrera predicted ranchers would sue the federal government to fight the installation of a fence on their property. One reason is that ranchers want access to the Rio Grande, which snakes 1,254 miles along the border, to water their herds and for sport fishermen who pay to use the waterway.

Perhaps because of these objections, Congress, in a late-night concession just before adjournment, pledged that Native American tribes, members of Congress, governors and local leaders would get a say in "the exact placement" of any structure, and that Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff has discretion to use alternatives "when fencing is ineffective or impractical."

Herrra thinks flexibility might be needed. He echoed a widespread skepticism about federal programs, hatched in Washington, designed to deal with the border problems.

"A few years ago, they installed cameras and said the cameras would solve things," he said. "Those cameras can pick up a tick on a cow's back. But when half the monitors are all busted like they are now, they don't work."

His prediction for how illegal immigrants would deal with the wall: "They will get ladders made out of mesquite and climb it."

3 Comments:

At 7:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A few years ago, they installed cameras and said the cameras would solve things," he said. "Those cameras can pick up a tick on a cow's back. But when half the monitors are all busted like they are now, they don't work."

Busted up monitors. Who busted them?.. Look you sell the idea of a fence whether you realize it or not.. All the breeches, suggest illicit activity. You are not suggesting we give up and let Criminals take over?

Anti-illegal immigration, American Citizens, have been hit personally in most cases by illegal border crashers.

In our neighborhoods increased criminal activity is frightening, I won't get into the property values decline. I won't get into why I refuse to purchase any produce from California (..defecating in the very fields produce is grown.)

Gilbert, Arizona, far from the border. is rampant with Brown and Black Mexican Heroin.

One of the Elementary schools in that same district I personally had to use for my young girls, has drug pushers.

Dealers have their children push drugs in the school yard. In all our schools, public education has been so dumbed down, our children are the long term losers.

I would suggest you illegal baiters are the loudest, as you USE these Illegals, as slave labor.

You Live and breath as money grubbing slobs, slumlords, pawnshops, contractors, all who have no vested interest in the quality of life in America, other than the extra buck you make today.

Your defense of the Illegals is also their downfall..

Your de-fence argument points out very clearly all the reasons to seal up the border.

I am all for legal immigration. Controlled as to who comes into this Great, Beautiful, country.

Someone who would be an asset to any community, not a liability. If you can be self-supporting, if you are not ready to deliver a ward of the state. Are disease free and have proof of inoculations. You are welcome.

If you have no criminal intent, or background. You are welcome to come attempt to live the AMERICAN DREAM.

Apparently Mexico has no such DREAM.

Why is it so many feel the need to sneak in.

Would it be because they have questionable backgrounds.

Doesn't sound like the poor are coming when you Pro-illegal groups tout the thousands these people ante up to pay a coyote.

You should really come up with some intelligent, thought out reason not to seal the border. I call the kettle black here, and you are the one validating all the reasons why America needs a fence and boots to back it up.

You know what would save the AMERICAN CITIZEN taxpayer.

Placing the blame where it belongs. Mexico, and the Sleaze on this side of the border who exploit illegals.

Freeze Mexican assets, till they enforce their people and their border.

Care to HELP the Illegal immigrant. Demand the UN call for humanitarian action and subject Mexico to suffer sanctions as the people are suffering from a callous corrupt government. Demand Mexico come up with a valid, workable plan, to offer relief from the oppression their people are suffering.

Mexico can voluntarily seal their side, stop kicking its people to the curb, with effective law enforcement, that is not being padded by drug cartels.

I see no basis to your argument not to seal the border, with a really big, nice, strong, expensive fence, with the manpower to back it up.

I see all that we have to gain in this country when it is taken back by communities that share values.

Communities that share a common language, English. Communities that maintain clean healthy environments.

Imagine not having to wade through press whatever number, blah, blah, blah for the only natural language that should be common "English only, please".

An education system that is not dumbed down mainly because of the barrier of a language that is becoming more and more synonymous of ignorance. You speak it, you show you are ignorant.

Hardly, it is the language used an excuse, an excuse not to answer anyone's question, the language used to remain hidden, to be dis-honest.

Again your cause is hurt by the insistence of Spamish everywhere. People lose these jobs because they cannot communicate with the invaders? I can read and speak grade school Spanish but I won't, ever, it is wrong. I imagine most of my generation and even my older children can also it was forced on us.. Why is English not forced on Mexicans.?

Good question, is it because Mexico pushes the La Raza junk that they belong here. You know it baby,
Know something else?
If you ever got your way and we had enmass amnesty..I hope you can deal with the Chevez way of life. You lose, your slums, your businesses, are now the governments.

You are the aging, white, American they say is dying.

Who gains anything with amnesty and and not closing the border to controlled immigration?

The Crooks and the Crooks who hire and exploit them.

I say let the innocent, self supporting immigrants come, by invitation.

Then the corrupt, the criminal, the handout seekers will remain where they belong in Mexico. Land of whatCorruption, where it breeds, and then bleeds into ours.

Show me a border city not corrupted and in control by the very failed systems in place in the Corrupt Mexico.

I am America. Your attempt to belittle me is a failure.
Everyone knows when you have no good retort you resort to childish name calling. Saddly I see that allot these days coming from the highest places.

Those high places have a way of collapsing, and you do get hurt.

I am America, these colors do not bleed, anywhere, anytime.

 
At 7:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"A few years ago, they installed cameras and said the cameras would solve things," he said. "Those cameras can pick up a tick on a cow's back. But when half the monitors are all busted like they are now, they don't work."

Busted up monitors. Who busted them?.. Look you sell the idea of a fence whether you realize it or not.. All the breeches, suggest illicit activity. You are not suggesting we give up and let Criminals take over?

Anti-illegal immigration American Citizens have been hit personally in most cases by Illegal border crashers.

In our neighborhoods increased criminal activity is frightening.

Gilbert, Arizona, far from the border is rampant with Brown and Black Mexican Heroin.

One of the Elementary schools in that same district I personally had to use for my young girls, has drug pushers.

Dealers have their children push drugs in the school yard. In all our schools, public education has been so dumbed down our children are the long term losers.

I would suggest you illegal baiters are the loudest as you USE these Illegals as slave labor.

You Live and breath as money grubbing slobs, slumlords, pawnshops, contractors, all who have no vested interest in the quality of life in America, other than the extra buck you make today.

Your defense of the Illegals is also their downfall..

Your de-fence argument points out very clearly all the reasons to seal up the border.

I am all for legal immigration. Controlled as to who comes into this Great, Beautiful, country.

Someone who would be an asset to any community, not a liability. If you can be self-supporting if you are not ready to deliver a ward of the state. Are disease free and have proof of inoculations. You are welcome.

If you have no criminal intent, or background. You are welcome to come attempt to live the AMERICAN DREAM.

Apparently Mexico has no such DREAM.

Why is it so many feel the need to sneak in.

Would it be because they have questionable backgrounds.

Doesn't sound like the poor are coming when you Pro-illegal groups tout the thousands these people put up to pay a coyote.

You should really come up with some intelligent, thought out reason not to seal the border. I call the kettle black here, and you are the one validating all the reasons why America needs a fence and boots to back it up.

You know what would save the AMERICAN CITIZEN taxpayer.

Placing the blame where it belongs. Mexico and the Sleaze on this side of the border who exploit illegals.

Freeze Mexican assets, till they enforce their people and their border.

Care to HELP the Illegal immigrants. Demand the UN call for humantarian action and subject Mexico to suffer sanctions as the people are suffering from a callous corrupt government. Demand Mexico come up with a valid workable plan to offer relief from the oppression their people are suffering.

Mexico can voluntarily seal their side and stop kicking its people to the curb with effective law enforcement that is not being padded by drug cartels.

I see no basis to your argument not to seal the border with a really big, nice and strong, expensive fence with the manpower to back it up.

I see all that we have to gain in this country when it is taken back by communities that share values. Communities that share a common language, English. Communities that maintain clean healthy environments.

An education system that is not dumbed down mainly because of the barrier of a language that is becoming more and more synonymous of ignorance. You speak it you show your ignorant.

Hardly, it is the language used an excuse not to answer anyone's question, the language used to remain hidden.

Who gains anything with amnesty and and not closing the border to controlled immigration?

The Crooks and the Crooks who hire and exploit them.

I say let the innocent, self supporting immigrants come, by invitation.

Then the corrupt, the criminal, the handout seekers will remain where they belong in Mexico. Land of whatCorruption, where it breeds, and then bleeds into ours.

Show me a border city not corrupted and in control by the very failed systems in place in the Corrupt Mexico.

I am America. Your attempt to belittle me is a failure.
Everyone knows when you have no good retort you resort to childish name calling. Saddly I see that allot these days coming from the highest places.

Those high places have a way of collapsing, and you do get hurt.

I am America, these colors do not bleed, anywhere, anytime.


"A few years ago, they installed cameras and said the cameras would solve things," he said. "Those cameras can pick up a tick on a cow's back. But when half the monitors are all busted like they are now, they don't work."

Busted up monitors. Who busted them?.. Look you sell the idea of a fence whether you realize it or not.. All the breeches, suggest illicit activity. You are not suggesting we give up and let Criminals take over?

Anti-illegal immigration, American Citizens, have been hit personally in most cases by illegal border crashers.

In our neighborhoods increased criminal activity is frightening, I won't get into the property values decline. I won't get into why I refuse to purchase any produce from California (..defecating in the very fields produce is grown.)

Gilbert, Arizona, far from the border. is rampant with Brown and Black Mexican Heroin.

One of the Elementary schools in that same district I personally had to use for my young girls, has drug pushers.

Dealers have their children push drugs in the school yard. In all our schools, public education has been so dumbed down, our children are the long term losers.

I would suggest you illegal baiters are the loudest, as you USE these Illegals, as slave labor.

You Live and breath as money grubbing slobs, slumlords, pawnshops, contractors, all who have no vested interest in the quality of life in America, other than the extra buck you make today.

Your defense of the Illegals is also their downfall..

Your de-fence argument points out very clearly all the reasons to seal up the border.

I am all for legal immigration. Controlled as to who comes into this Great, Beautiful, country.

Someone who would be an asset to any community, not a liability. If you can be self-supporting, if you are not ready to deliver a ward of the state. Are disease free and have proof of inoculations. You are welcome.

If you have no criminal intent, or background. You are welcome to come attempt to live the AMERICAN DREAM.

Apparently Mexico has no such DREAM.

Why is it so many feel the need to sneak in.

Would it be because they have questionable backgrounds.

Doesn't sound like the poor are coming when you Pro-illegal groups tout the thousands these people ante up to pay a coyote.

You should really come up with some intelligent, thought out reason not to seal the border. I call the kettle black here, and you are the one validating all the reasons why America needs a fence and boots to back it up.

You know what would save the AMERICAN CITIZEN taxpayer.

Placing the blame where it belongs. Mexico, and the Sleaze on this side of the border who exploit illegals.

Freeze Mexican assets, till they enforce their people and their border.

Care to HELP the Illegal immigrant. Demand the UN call for humanitarian action and subject Mexico to suffer sanctions as the people are suffering from a callous corrupt government. Demand Mexico come up with a valid, workable plan, to offer relief from the oppression their people are suffering.

Mexico can voluntarily seal their side, stop kicking its people to the curb, with effective law enforcement, that is not being padded by drug cartels.

I see no basis to your argument not to seal the border, with a really big, nice, strong, expensive fence, with the manpower to back it up.

I see all that we have to gain in this country when it is taken back by communities that share values.

Communities that share a common language, English. Communities that maintain clean healthy environments.

Imagine not having to wade through press whatever number, blah, blah, blah for the only natural language that should be common "English only, please".

An education system that is not dumbed down mainly because of the barrier of a language that is becoming more and more synonymous of ignorance. You speak it, you show you are ignorant.

Hardly, it is the language used an excuse, an excuse not to answer anyone's question, the language used to remain hidden, to be dis-honest.

Again your cause is hurt by the insistence of Spamish everywhere. People lose these jobs because they cannot communicate with the invaders? I can read and speak grade school Spanish but I won't, ever, it is wrong. I imagine most of my generation and even my older children can also it was forced on us.. Why is English not forced on Mexicans.?

Good question, is it because Mexico pushes the La Raza junk that they belong here. You know it baby,
Know something else?
If you ever got your way and we had enmass amnesty..I hope you can deal with the Chevez way of life. You lose, your slums, your businesses, are now the governments.

You are the aging, white, American they say is dying.

Who gains anything with amnesty and and not closing the border to controlled immigration?

The Crooks and the Crooks who hire and exploit them.

I say let the innocent, self supporting immigrants come, by invitation.

Then the corrupt, the criminal, the handout seekers will remain where they belong in Mexico. Land of whatCorruption, where it breeds, and then bleeds into ours.

Show me a border city not corrupted and in control by the very failed systems in place in the Corrupt Mexico.

I am America. Your attempt to belittle me is a failure.
Everyone knows when you have no good retort you resort to childish name calling. Saddly I see that allot these days coming from the highest places.

Those high places have a way of collapsing, and you do get hurt.

I am America, these colors do not bleed, anywhere, anytime.

 
At 7:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I apologize for the dual posts It defaulted to the word verification screen on me and I had not seen the post..I do apologize I never meant to repeat my editing .

 

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